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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 07:25:02 AM
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This may be the first time the nats have been run, especially in Victoria, without a single post mentioning them.
Problem ?
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650ss
Level 1 Member
Victoria
4 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 08:37:15 AM
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| This is anothother one that should of been a great meet but has been spoiled by iregularities of MA's incompentence, how can a 350 duke enter into the p3 F700 and Unlimited classes all being one race and take out 3rd for both classes, |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 10:23:24 AM
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650ss I don't know where you saw that 350 Ducati, there is no evidence that I can find to suggest that it even started in the races you mention.
I agree though that it was a bit of a dog's breakfast, and sadly, I can only see it getting worse when P6 want to be involved.
Glenn, it was very quiet on here, perhaps due to last minute midnight oil being burnt in garages??
I was lazy and relied on Computime and my imagination to keep me informed.
Perhaps we will get some comments when the boys have unpacked.
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125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
Edited by - john feakes on 06 Sep 2010 10:25:26 AM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 10:56:18 AM
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Easy 650ss, it is not incompetance of MA, the 350cc obviously went faster than the F700 class entries and the unloimited class entries.
Bikes can bump up one capacxity level. I am surprised a 350 was in something bigger than a 500cc class, but if it is actually greater then 367.5cc it is classed as a 500 and would be eligible for the larger fields.
It is not MA that your should be gunning, but the promoters. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
Edited by - john on 06 Sep 2010 10:57:24 AM |
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NicM
Level 2 Member
Victoria
85 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 12:03:39 PM
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| I might have been a bit lonely down there in pit shed 5, after everyone crashed out, broke down or went home, but hey, I had a ball, even with a crash in practise and crappy lap times!!! |
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NicM
Level 2 Member
Victoria
85 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 12:06:39 PM
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| Big thanks to Al Hay too for the lend of the master cylinder and tyre warmers!!! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 12:28:19 PM
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So what happenned/
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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NicM
Level 2 Member
Victoria
85 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 5:29:46 PM
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| Threw it away at Honda in the first lap of practise, second time I've done that in a year.. Don't learn too easily.. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 6:35:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by 650ss
This is anothother one that should of been a great meet but has been spoiled by iregularities of MA's incompentence, how can a 350 duke enter into the p3 F700 and Unlimited classes all being one race and take out 3rd for both classes,
Do what ? Just what rider/machine combination are you referring to here ? It's news to me, and I had a good view. 
If you are referring to Keith Campbell, he rode his 550 AJS for most of the meeting, and turned out in the last 500 race on Ian Glover's 450 Ducati. Didn't spot a 350 Ducati out there doing anything at all along the lines you've indicated. Perhaps Keith can clear it up for you. |
Edited by - GD66 on 06 Sep 2010 8:19:17 PM |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 8:52:13 PM
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I thought it may have been a 500cc eligible machine.
You cranks who choose to abuse MA the first moment something happens need to learn exactly what is the truth.
Too many people just shoot the mouth off thinking others will join in the stupid slander.
Well I can say that personally I dont see why people want to scam MA for something they had no part in, just get the facts and scam MA when they have done wrong, not when you have not got a bloody clue about the subject your are talking about. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 11:49:12 PM
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| Where was Peter Guest ? He's always at the nats. |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 07:01:23 AM
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| What does 'scam MA' mean? Are you calling criticising, 'scamming'? I would have thought MA was big and ugly enough to defend itself? |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 07:11:16 AM
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| I believe a 350 Ducati is a P4 machine? Have MA finally woken up and started allowing cross-period races to be run at historic events? |
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OldKwak
Level 2 Member
Victoria
156 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 07:38:18 AM
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| I think you find Peter Guest has decided to retire, a real shame. A nice bloke and great racer. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 09:54:26 AM
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| Dont start the rumours I will check |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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trumpybob
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
29 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 10:41:02 AM
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| What about P4 Formula 750 ! There were 11 entries on the program and it was completely ignored, I asked Brendan Ferrari on friday and he told me to my face that they would be scoring it even though it wasn't mentioned in the program, but then they didn't. Who decides such things, M.A. or the promoter, a championship class is a championship class you can't just pretend its not! |
Racing is everything,the rest of the time is just waiting |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 1:00:35 PM
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The promoter is responsible for the decision.
Discuss it with the promoter.
MA appoints the promoter.
Brendan has just advised me did speak with somebody about the Formula race, but he now realises he was confused and thought you were talking about F700, which includes the P2 and 3 machines and he made a response along the lines reported. He apologises for confusing it.
The 350cc was a replacement for the riders 500cc which died earlier than the race. A 350 can bump up to the 500cc eligible race.
Bikes in a single event with multiple classes can win more than one trophy for the event if they are faster than the other bikes in other classes.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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trumpybob
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
29 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 1:43:11 PM
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John;
Appreciate the follow up. I find it a concern that a promoter can pick and choose which championships they will run when M.A.'s requirements are met regarding numbers e.t.c. I would have thought that would be part of the deal when awarded the meeting by M.A. I'll make my concern known to M.A. officially through my club, but I can now see why there were grumblings about this meeting not being awarded to a club but to a promoter instead. It would seem that their interest or rather sympathies lie in slightly different areas. |
Racing is everything,the rest of the time is just waiting |
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trumpybob
Level 2 Member
New South Wales
29 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 5:13:11 PM
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| Just an after thought, in all fairness could it be that entries were withdrawn after the program was printed ? hmm perhaps a little research is required before jumping up and down. |
Racing is everything,the rest of the time is just waiting |
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matcho mick
Advanced Member
New South Wales
570 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 6:18:36 PM
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Big thanks to Al Hay too for the lend of the master cylinder and tyre warmers!!!
i would like to thank sir Al too, for the handwarmers,slight design glitch apart,ie,1 hand at a time,& suspect heat level control,(at least i didn't require medical attention )good meeting,good vibes,pity about the weather,but it couda been worse,would have like to have done more than 4 laps in practice,but hey thats racing,(at least they were dry laps),congrats to all the winners,big cheers for the flaggies, gotta be keen to stay out in that weather,cheers  |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 7:46:10 PM
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One reason it was given to PIMS was that no club put their hand up.
There are other issues which I will not go into on a public forum. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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keith campbell
Level 3 Member
Victoria
248 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 7:54:03 PM
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As per GD66's response. My 550 crapped it's pants. Ian Glover was very,very,very understanding and kind enough to let me ride his Ducati he entered and was riding in the 500 P3 class. After a stressful weekend of racing and running repairs i took me and Dad home early not attending the Presentation.
Kelly Spargo kindly agreed to collect any awards on my behalf. I do have 3rd place Medallions for both P3 Unlim and P3 700 class after picking them up last night, along with 2nd P4 Junior. How the scoring is done I dunno???
As Mick says above, good meeting,thanks to the flaggies and see you all at the Southern Classic in Oct.
Cheers Keith |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 8:15:42 PM
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Roger that, Keith. Well there's your answer, 650SS, and it's worth mentioning here that while GCRs allow you to race up one class and not come back, supp regs for this particular meeting DID allow you to race up one class AND go back, just as Laurie Turnbull has been doing for years. So nothing sinister there after all.
PS results and points are on the You must be logged in to see this link. website as always |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 10:19:15 PM
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| I hear Laurie seemed to be heard a lot! |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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650ss
Level 1 Member
Victoria
4 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 02:03:16 AM
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You need to get it right John. That bike was not entered in either Class F700 or Unlimited and as the GCR's State a bike in historic racing may enter in its class and the next class up- full stop..............
I Have no beef with Kieth or the bike Kieth's a great bloke and a slick rider and that bike is a supreme machine, it is the fact that the powers that be gave him trophies for a bike was entered in a lower capacity race and jumped up more than one class as the rules allow. It might have been OK in the F700 but not the unlimited.
There is a list of faults from this meet log books weren't being asked for never lone sighted at scuiteneering.(what's the piont of having them) No riders briefing on Saturday with such hazardous conditions, no impounding of bikes after races, the letting through of a well know rider at the pit gate after the red flag was in place holding up the race start, if it was me I know they wouldn't have let me through. The changing of the progressive grid after it was stated at riders briefing that it would not be. The list goes on! The whole point of any of these comments is that the rules change by the minute. how the hell are you suppose to know which rules they are using. The one in the book or the ones they make up on the day!!!
Oh!! and who is it that approves the sup reg's MA whom is it that makes us have log books MA and whom is it that changes the rules at will MA and who had the final say with the piont scoreing of the F700/Ulimited class was just wrong!...... an MA rep!!!!! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 07:47:56 AM
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650ss, thanks for the extra info.
A bike entered in a 500cc can bump up to F700.
I see your point clearly now in that the unlimited is beyond the F700.
I guess write and lodge a complaint via your State Controlling body, you may get something.
The question maybe , can it also race in the 500cc race. My personal opinion is that they should be able to get trophies in both races if they place correctly.
Not using Log books is a disgrace
No Saturday riders briefing seems odd.
I will follow up if you like, send me some more points please.
MA approves the supp regs.
Points scoring , I would have thought the Clerk of Course would give direction to the time keepers, I will follow up. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 07:56:39 AM
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| Trumpybob, Supp Regs for championship meetings require MA approval. A promoter is thus limitted in what they can do with the event, but the bottom line is probably a bit more important to them than it is to an affiliated club. |
Edited by - glen20 on 08 Sep 2010 08:04:22 AM |
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650ss
Level 1 Member
Victoria
4 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 12:52:55 AM
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I would have lodged a protest straight after the race but due to the curcumstances at that meet no one knew what was going on. Who was racing who in the F700/unlimited races not even the Clerk of Course, Saturday morning before any race the question was asked at the control tower and was told that the races were classed as listed on the time sheets the bikes listed as either F700 or Unlimited and that the pionts scoring would be scored as of the time sheets from each race. There were no bikes listed as F700 & Unlimited just one or the other.
Then when the last race was finnished I went back to the tower to obtain results, I was refused then I insisted while waiting for over half an hour then was show some results and they seemed stange Russel Cradock was listed as 3rd out right when I knew he should have been second for F700 I left and came back minutes later once again and demanded to see the Clerk of Course and got to speek to Brendon and he siad they had changed the pionts tally 3 times and explained to me that pionts scoring of classes will be based as the way it was writen in the program but would not release any results unill the presentaions then at pressentation the pionts were not as he explained at all and the rest is history. How could any one protest when even the officials don't know what's going on. there is a 30 min duration after the race to do so and with no idea of who was where in the race you wouldn't know who or what to protest, hence I see why there was no impounding of machines they just didn't know what was going on nor did they want anyone else to.
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oldonk
Level 2 Member
Australian Capital Territory
84 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 08:11:19 AM
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It does not sound very good.
We actually sit down with the time keepers and detail which machine is in which class, because we have had problems in the past. Its my guess machines were not identified as being in F700 P3 and F750 P4 and that is why the mess occurred.
I will ask around for mysake as much as anything. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2010 : 09:41:03 AM
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Protests can be lodged 30minutes after the results are made public which in this case Brendan says he would have taken as 30 mins after the presentations. he says he waited for a protest, but none came and we guess it was because you accepted the 30 mins was from the end of the race.
I will follow up one other source this morning also.
500cc machines were placed in the program in 500cc, P700 and P3 Unlimited classes. This is where the mistake was made.
The confusion was created by the promoter,PIMS putting that in the program.
Also a number of riders did not indicate on the entry their desire to be in P700 when they were eligible and I think turned up on the grid.
It was worsened by the fact the PIMS representive David Catchpole was ill on Friday and not in attendance on Friday so nothing was done about the mess until Saturday.
When he arrived on Saturday it was drawn to his attension and he rectified it.
But he did not make it clear that a 650 could win in both events IE the P3 F700 and the P3 Unlimited.
There was no riders briefing on Sat. because it was held on Friday morning, Brendan says a call was put over for thsoe who did not attend the riders sign on and briefing on Friday should come up for the information. Only a few turned up.
I understand the machines in front at the end of the combined event were
500cc Winner 500
1000cc Winner Unlimited
650cc Winner P700
650cc 2nd place P700
I did not get the other results but this shows the mix I hope. |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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650ss
Level 1 Member
Victoria
4 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2010 : 7:07:29 PM
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Like I said John how could anyone protest when the classes were not defined the program said one thing, the timing sheets said something else the coordinators at the control tower said use the classes listed on the time sheet on Saturday morning was told just after the last race it would be as the program with some minor changes and then at presentations it is totaly different all together.( I am only talking about F700/Unlimited races)
Now the way I see it and as the rules state! if you want to race in more than one class it can only be up one cappacity and you must enter your bike to race that class. Not just race in the same race and take pionts from the higher class because you are on the track racing with the higher class. The F700 and the Unlimited I beleive were combined races to save time, two races of different classes on the track at the same time. Not one race class!!!!!!
And if you wanted to race in the higher class you had to enter in that as the rules state not just take pionts from the higher class because you were there on the track.
Other wise why bother having the 2 classes at all.
Now I beleive the pionts awarded were given to all the bikes in that race relative to there position in the race not there class because the second and third place getters in the unlimited classes were listed in the program as only entered in the F700 class where someone like Laurie Turnbull and Craig Mitchell were actualy entered in both and if they had places there wouldnt be a problem because the program states they were actualy enered in both classes were Where Russel and Keith were not sot in reality they should have only been able to take pionts for the class they were entered in F700.
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