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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 4:27:28 PM
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I have been asked to seek input from racers:
Which is the preferred gridding system?
We can base then of a few methods.
Qualifying times
Benefits- fastest at front, less chance of incidents [ crashes]
Problems- bad qualifying time, crook bike, means caos may reign. Wet weather, may create unusual grids which then apply to a dry track.
Holes appear in the grid when others break down, DNF.
Progressive Grid
Move forward or back depending on results of earlier race.
Benefits - Full grid, reward gained for race results and improvements
Weakness- Fastest bloke could be on back of grid. Forgettful people turn up to wrong grid, and there are plenty who dont even look at the grid sheet.
Shandy- Work with a progressive system but allow normally fast blokes to sit on row 3 even if they have a DNF.
PLEASE PRESENT A CASE FOR ONE OR THE OTHER, NOT JUST VOTE FOR ONE OR ANOTHER.
THANSK FOR YOUR TIME IF YOU RESPOND
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 4:56:49 PM
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Having raced recently under a variety of gridding methods, I comment as follows:
1/ It depends very much on the nature of the event. For example, where practice and qualifying slots are at a premium (and Hartwell are having an interesting debate about this right now on their forum) then there can be merit in gridding as per championship standings or last meeting results. This helps keep the faster guys at the front in general in anycase.
2/ If you have the luxury of qualifying, then I still believe progressive grids are better. Again it depends on the class and event - the current 600 races in Vic titles etc are very competitive and they see qualifying to be almost as important as the heats.
3/ The benefits / downsides of gridding just on qualifying times versus progressive grids I believe balance out, over a season at least.
4/ If you don't have progressive grids then it makes qualifying more important, which may or may not suit everyone. Progressive grids at least allow someone who qualifies badly but is clearly towards the front to redeem something in the heats.
5/ I've sometimes wondered whether qualifying shouldn't be awarded half points or the like (and Hartwell did used to run a qualifying "race" but without points) before transponders came in this year.
6/ I don't think a shandy sytem is a good idea. It muddies things too much - most of the time the faster bikes will be up front regardless. |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 11:27:11 PM
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I think that for any title meetings it should be qualifying and race from where you qualify. This provides some hope of redeeming yourself after a 'hiccup' in one leg of the title while a rolling grid condemns you if you hiccup in an early leg because it pushes you down the grid for your next start thus making it even more difficult for you,
For club rounds I reckon the approach I have met a few times seems to work. That approach is common sense! There have been occasions when someone (yes occasionally me) has not found themselves in an appropriate position on the grid (perhaps they had problems in qualifying). I have been involved in discussions which simply resulted in moving them to a more appropriate position. This has usually been done in the interest of safety.
That's my 2 cents worth for the moment.
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 07:42:28 AM
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| As it's historic racing, perhaps we should go back to the push start, with the electric start on multis disabled? Alternatively, a rolling start behind a pace machine? |
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JasonL
Level 3 Member
Victoria
240 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 09:44:07 AM
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Could you imagine trying to push start say Roland Skate's CBX1000 off the slightly uphill start on the Winton club circuit???
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 10:56:48 AM
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I would love to see push starts it would force some reality about the mechanics of the engines.
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Geoffpgrant
Level 3 Member
South Australia
204 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 2:09:49 PM
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Hmm not sure about push starts,
But definitely not rolling starts! That would take all the art and fun out of the start - especially for those of us who have actually mastered it!
Go the two strokes!!! :-)
Geoff
Sidecar #30 |
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john feakes
Advanced Member
Victoria
791 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 4:47:16 PM
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Push starts, lovely,
if we could have our 20 year old bodies back, but in reality half the field would be lying on the track waiting for medical attention.
I think the safest way is by qualification with a bit of common sense mixed in so that you don't have a potential race winner starting from the back because of something silly happening in qualifying.
This especially if running mixed classes in the one race.
Where is this leading? |
125 RIDERS' ALLIANCE
A wise person simplifies the complicated, a fool complicates the simple. |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 6:10:30 PM
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| I agree with Geoff. Qualifying and static grids for championship events, and progressive grids for club level events. |
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Jaffa56
Level 1 Member
New Zealand
3 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 05:01:54 AM
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Qualifying grids are pretty fair if there are 2 qual sessions. If for some reason a qual session is not run, as was the case, best practice times could be used.
If race goes badly you get another shot from the same spot you earned. Crashes, rain, breakdowns - it's all part of the fun we call motorsport, ain't always fair.
First time to the Island as part of the Kiwi team and had an absolute blast, you guys are so lucky having proper circuits. We have to clear sheep off ours first.
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Edited by - Jaffa56 on 11 Sep 2010 9:09:35 PM |
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Alan Cotterell
In a time out state
Victoria
421 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 09:00:28 AM
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| How do you set up a grid based on qualifying times? Is there already computer software to do that, which uses transponder input? |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 10:45:24 AM
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Yes
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John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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GD66
Senior Member
Western Australia
390 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 6:14:57 PM
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| Bloody hell. What'll they think of next ? |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 9:36:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GD66
Bloody hell. What'll they think of next ?
LOL |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 9:38:22 PM
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| Fuel from the atmosphere |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 9:56:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by GD66
Bloody hell. What'll they think of next ?
We have a split loop in now about 50m before Turn 3 seemed to work fine for the Vic Modern Titles - look forward to proving it all up for the Hartwell round next weekend.
Around 45 lambs born in the last three weeks - please ride with less revs from T4 to T7!!! |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 10:35:33 PM
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| Patrick, what does the split loop do? |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Patrick
Level 3 Member
Victoria
314 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2010 : 11:00:12 PM
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| Times you from the start-finish to the split so that you can see what time you do and then you can look at comparable machines to see if you are faster in that sector, very good way to work out where your strengths are. |
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john
Forum Moderator
Victoria
3130 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2010 : 6:43:47 PM
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| thanks |
John Daley Sidecar #68
' there are those who do, those who dont do and those who undo. We must lampoon the latter." |
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Doghouse Dave
Level 2 Member
Victoria
34 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 11:49:55 PM
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| Thats a great idea,will the split times be on display during meetings? |
It doesnt matter if you win or lose,its having a good time that counts. |
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Doghouse Dave
Level 2 Member
Victoria
34 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2010 : 11:52:51 PM
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| I'll be riding with MORE revs I'm not having a lamb beat me into a corner! I"ve been passed by everything else,but not a lamb........yet! |
It doesnt matter if you win or lose,its having a good time that counts. |
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